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Legendary History Prior to 1st Century BC
Beli Mawr and Llyr Llediath in Welsh Pedigrees
The Bartrum "Welsh Genealogies"
Bartrum's "Pedigrees of the Welsh Tribal Patriarchs"
A study in charting medieval citations
The Evolution of the "Padriarc Brenin" Pedigree
Generational Gaps and the Welsh Laws
Minimum Age for Welsh Kingship in the Eleventh Century
The Lands of the Silures
Catel Durnluc aka Cadell Ddyrnllwg
Ancient Powys
The Royal Family of Powys
The Royal Family of Gwynedd
The 5 Plebian Tribes of Wales
Maxen Wledig of Welsh Legend
Maxen Wledig and the Welsh Genealogies
Anwn Dynod ap Maxen Wledig
Constans I and his 343 Visit to Britain
Glast and the Glastening
Composite Lives of St Beuno
Rethinking the Gwent Pedigrees
The Father of Tewdrig of Gwent
Another Look at Teithfallt of Gwent
Ynyr Gwent and Caradog Freich Fras
Llowarch ap Bran, Lord of Menai
Rulers of Brycheiniog - The Unanswered Questions
Lluan ferch Brychan
The Herbert Family Pedigree
Edwin of Tegeingl and his Family
Angharad, Heiress of Mostyn
Ithel of Bryn in Powys
Idnerth Benfras of Maesbrook
Henry, the Forgotten Son of Cadwgan ap Bleddyn
The Muddled Pedigree of Sir John Wynn of Gwydir
The Mysterious Peverel Family
The Clan of Tudor Trevor
The Other "Sir Roger of Powys"
Ancestry of Ieuaf ap Adda ap Awr of Trevor
The Retaking of Northeast Wales
Hedd Molwynog or Hedd ap Alunog of Llanfair Talhearn
"Meuter Fawr" son of Hedd ap Alunog
The Medieval "redating" of Braint Hir
Aaron Paen ap Y Paen Hen
Welsh Claims to Ceri after 1179
The Battle of Mynydd Carn
Trahaearn ap Caradog of Arwystli
Cadafael Ynfyd of Cydewain
Maredudd ap Robert, Lord of Cedewain
Cadwgan of Nannau
Maredudd ap Owain, King of Deheubarth
What Really Happened in Deheubarth in 1022?
Two Families headed by a Rhydderch ap Iestyn
The Era of Llewelyn ap Seisyll
Cynfyn ap Gwerystan, the Interim King
The Consorts and Children of Gruffudd ap Llewelyn
The 1039 Battle at Rhyd y Groes
The First Wife of Bleddyn ap Cynfyn
Hywel ap Gronwy of Deheubarth
The Brief Life of Gruffudd ap Maredudd
The Other Gwenwynwyn
Eunydd son of Gwenllian
Sandde Hardd of Mortyn
The Floruit of Einion ap Seisyllt
The Enigmatic Elystan Glodrydd
Cowryd ap Cadfan of Dyffryn Clwyd
Owain ap Cadwgan and Nest ferch Rhys - An Historic Fiction?
The "sons" of Owain ap Cadwgan ap Bleddyn
The Betrayal by Meirion Goch Revisited
Gwyn Ddistain, seneschal for Llewelyn Fawr
The Men of Lleyn - How They Got There
Trahaearn Goch of Lleyn
Einion vs Iestyn ap Gwrgan - The Conquest of Glamorgan
Dafydd Goch ap Dafydd - His Real Ancestry
Thomas ap Rhodri - Father of Owain "Lawgoch"
The "Malpas" Family in Cheshire
Einion ap Celynin of Llwydiarth
Marchweithian, Lord of Is Aled, Rhufoniog
Osbwrn Wyddel of Cors Gedol
Bradwen of Llys Bradwen in Meirionydd
Ednowain ap Bradwen
Sorting out the Gwaithfoeds
Three Men called Iorwerth Goch "ap Maredudd"
The Caradog of Gwynedd With 3 Fathers
Who Was Sir Robert Pounderling?
Eidio Wyllt - What Was His Birthname?
The Legendary Kingdom of Seisyllwg
The Royal Family of Ceredigion
Llewelyn ap Hoedliw, Lord of Is Cerdin
The Ancestry of Owain Glyndwr
Welsh Ancestry of the Tudor Dynasty
Gruffudd ap Rhys, the Homeless Prince
The Children of Lord Rhys
Maredudd Gethin ap Lord Rhys
The 'Next Heir' of Morgan of Caerleon
Pedigree of the ancient Lords of Ial
The Shropshire Walcot Family
Pedigree of "Ednowain Bendew II"
Pedigree of Cynddelw Gam

#21 - GWENWYS or CADWGAN WENWYS
 
         Bartrum presents 3 pedigrees under this heading:
 
         (1)  "Madog ap Gwenwys ap Gruffudd ap Beli ap Selyf ap Brochwel ap Aeddan ap Cyngen ap Eliseg"
 
         (2) "Madog ap Cadwgan Wennwys ap Dafydd ap Einion ap Griffri Fychan ap Gwyn ap Gruffudd ap Beli"
 
         (3) "Madog ap Gwenwys ap Einion ap Dafydd ap Roger ap Einion Gwyn ap Gruffudd ap Beli"
 
          His note to the pedigree says:
 
         "Ancestor of one of the Pump Costowglwyth.  Families belonging to his tribe were mostly in the neighborhood of Cegidfa.  Fourth in descent from Gwenwys was Sir Gruffudd Fychan (d. 1447).  The date of birth of Gwenwys must have been about 1270.  He could not, therefore, have been the son of Gruffudd of Cegidfa or of Gwyn ap Gruffudd, but the longer version (#2 above) is consistent with the later date found above for Gwyn ap Gruffudd, namely c. 1160, while (#3 above) points to the earlier date for Gwyn ap Gruffudd, namely c. 1050."
 
PEDIGREE #1:
 
         This is the pedigree of the Gwenwys who was the ancestor of Sir Gruffudd Fychan, but he was born c. 1250, not c. 1270.  His father was Gruffudd IV ap Beli IV ap Selyf IV ap Brochwel IV ap Aeddan IV, this Gruffudd born c. 1215.  Gwenwys was either a brother of Gwyn IV (c. 1250) ap Gruffudd IV, or he was the same man. 
 
          What Bartrum never was able to comprehend is that there were, within this extended family, four men named Gwyn ap Gruffudd ap Beli ap Selyf ap Brochwel ap Aeddan...men born c. 950, 1050, 1150 and 1250.[1]  His charts of the family are in complete disarray as he attempts to connect 4 separate family branches to only 2 men named Gwyn ap Gruffudd...those he dates to 1050 and 1160.[2] 
 
          The top of his pedigree which reads "Cyngen ap Eliseg" omits Brochwel as noted in our discussion of Patriarch #19 and #20.
 
PEDIGREE #2:
 
         This is the pedigree of Cadwgan Wennwys, a wholly different man who was born c. 1285 and descended from Gwyn III ap Gruffudd III of c. 1150.  Like the Gwenwys of c. 1250, he had a son named Madog which may have led to Bartrum thinking they were the same man.  But Cadwgan Wennwys also had sons Gruffudd and Rhiryd[3], while no sons but Madog are known for Gwenwys.
 
PEDIGREE #3:
 
          Found in a single source, this pedigree is merely a corrupt version of #2 and has nothing to recommend it.
 
CONCLUSION:
 
          When one applies strict chronological analysis to the entire Powys Royal Family, and does not assume every citation which mentions a Brochwel ap Aeddan is speaking of the same man, the family charts can be presented without time gaps or marriage matches which seem impossible and thus must be ignored.  Duplicate strings of same-named men occur in many Welsh families, but none moreso than this one.  Virtually all went unnoticed by Bartrum.
 
         The following chart shows the family relationship that exists between Gwenwys and Cadwgan Wennwys:
 
                                       685  Eliseg
                                                 l
                                     715  Brochwel
                                                 l
                                      750  Cyngen
                                                 l
                                      785  Aeddan
                                                 l
                                     820  Brochwel
                                                 l
                                       850  Selyf
                                                 l
                                      880  Aeddon II [4]
                                                 l
                                     910  Brochwel II
                                                 l
                                       945  Selyf II
                                                 l
                                     975  Aeddan III [5]
                                                 l
                                    1005  Brochwel III
                                                 l
                                      1045  Selyf III
                          ______________l____________
                          l                                         l
               1080  Beli III                       1075  Aeddan IV
                          l                                         l
            1115  Gruffudd III                  1110  Brochwel IV
                          l                                         l
              1150  Gwyn III                      1145  Selyf IV
                          l                                         l
         1185  Griffri Fychan                      1180  Beli IV
                          l                                         l
              1215  Einion                       1215  Gruffudd IV
                          l                                         l
              1250  Dafydd                      1250  Gwenwys [6]
                          l
       1285  Cadwgan Wennwys [7]
 
 
NOTES:
[1] See the paper "Powys Dynastic Family 945 - 1385" elsewhere on this site
[2] P.C. Bartrum, "Welsh Genealogies AD300-1400"; chart of Brochwel ap Aeddan on p. 48 and charts labeled Gwyn ap Gruffudd
[3] Dwnn i, 330; Visitation of Shropshire pp 249 and 506
[4] His brother Beli, born c. 855, was the first of a repeating string of same-named men which included Gwyn I ap Gruffudd I of c. 950
[5] His brother Beli II, born c. 980, was the grandfather of the c. 1050 Gwyn II ap Gruffudd II
[6] Ancestor of Sir Gruffudd Fychan (c. 1385) ap Gruffudd (c. 1350) ap Ieuan (c. 1320) ap Madog (c. 1285) ap Gwenwyn.  The brother of Gwenwys was Gwyn IV
[7] Ancestor of several families, including Gough of The Marsh in Shropshire