csawlogo.jpg

Home
Legendary History Prior to 1st Century BC
Beli Mawr and Llyr Llediath in Welsh Pedigrees
The Bartrum "Welsh Genealogies"
Bartrum's "Pedigrees of the Welsh Tribal Patriarchs"
A study in charting medieval citations
The Evolution of the "Padriarc Brenin" Pedigree
Generational Gaps and the Welsh Laws
Minimum Age for Welsh Kingship in the Eleventh Century
The Lands of the Silures
Catel Durnluc aka Cadell Ddyrnllwg
Ancient Powys
The Royal Family of Powys
The Royal Family of Gwynedd
The 5 Plebian Tribes of Wales
Maxen Wledig of Welsh Legend
Maxen Wledig and the Welsh Genealogies
Anwn Dynod ap Maxen Wledig
Constans I and his 343 Visit to Britain
Glast and the Glastening
Composite Lives of St Beuno
Rethinking the Gwent Pedigrees
The Father of Tewdrig of Gwent
Another Look at Teithfallt of Gwent
Ynyr Gwent and Caradog Freich Fras
Llowarch ap Bran, Lord of Menai
Rulers of Brycheiniog - The Unanswered Questions
Lluan ferch Brychan
The Herbert Family Pedigree
Edwin of Tegeingl and his Family
Angharad, Heiress of Mostyn
Ithel of Bryn in Powys
Idnerth Benfras of Maesbrook
Henry, the Forgotten Son of Cadwgan ap Bleddyn
The Muddled Pedigree of Sir John Wynn of Gwydir
The Mysterious Peverel Family
The Clan of Tudor Trevor
The Other "Sir Roger of Powys"
Ancestry of Ieuaf ap Adda ap Awr of Trevor
The Retaking of Northeast Wales
Hedd Molwynog or Hedd ap Alunog of Llanfair Talhearn
"Meuter Fawr" son of Hedd ap Alunog
The Medieval "redating" of Braint Hir
Aaron Paen ap Y Paen Hen
Welsh Claims to Ceri after 1179
The Battle of Mynydd Carn
Trahaearn ap Caradog of Arwystli
Cadafael Ynfyd of Cydewain
Maredudd ap Robert, Lord of Cedewain
Cadwgan of Nannau
Maredudd ap Owain, King of Deheubarth
What Really Happened in Deheubarth in 1022?
Two Families headed by a Rhydderch ap Iestyn
The Era of Llewelyn ap Seisyll
Cynfyn ap Gwerystan, the Interim King
The Consorts and Children of Gruffudd ap Llewelyn
The 1039 Battle at Rhyd y Groes
The First Wife of Bleddyn ap Cynfyn
Hywel ap Gronwy of Deheubarth
The Brief Life of Gruffudd ap Maredudd
The Other Gwenwynwyn
Eunydd son of Gwenllian
Sandde Hardd of Mortyn
The Floruit of Einion ap Seisyllt
The Enigmatic Elystan Glodrydd
Cowryd ap Cadfan of Dyffryn Clwyd
Owain ap Cadwgan and Nest ferch Rhys - An Historic Fiction?
The "sons" of Owain ap Cadwgan ap Bleddyn
The Betrayal by Meirion Goch Revisited
Gwyn Ddistain, seneschal for Llewelyn Fawr
The Men of Lleyn - How They Got There
Trahaearn Goch of Lleyn
Einion vs Iestyn ap Gwrgan - The Conquest of Glamorgan
Dafydd Goch ap Dafydd - His Real Ancestry
Thomas ap Rhodri - Father of Owain "Lawgoch"
The "Malpas" Family in Cheshire
Einion ap Celynin of Llwydiarth
Marchweithian, Lord of Is Aled, Rhufoniog
Osbwrn Wyddel of Cors Gedol
Bradwen of Llys Bradwen in Meirionydd
Ednowain ap Bradwen
Sorting out the Gwaithfoeds
Three Men called Iorwerth Goch "ap Maredudd"
The Caradog of Gwynedd With 3 Fathers
Who Was Sir Robert Pounderling?
Eidio Wyllt - What Was His Birthname?
The Legendary Kingdom of Seisyllwg
The Royal Family of Ceredigion
Llewelyn ap Hoedliw, Lord of Is Cerdin
The Ancestry of Owain Glyndwr
Welsh Ancestry of the Tudor Dynasty
Gruffudd ap Rhys, the Homeless Prince
The Children of Lord Rhys
Maredudd Gethin ap Lord Rhys
The 'Next Heir' of Morgan of Caerleon
Pedigree of the ancient Lords of Ial
The Shropshire Walcot Family
Pedigree of "Ednowain Bendew II"
Pedigree of Cynddelw Gam

#22 - COLLWYN ap TANGNO
 
         While Bartrum insists on the revisionist spelling "Gollwyn", he offers two pedigrees for this man:
 
         (1) "Gollwyn ap Tangno ap Cadfael ap Lludd ap Llew ap Llyminod angel ap Pasgen ap Urien Rheged"
 
         (2) "Gollwyn ap Tangno ap Cadfael ap Lludd ap Beli ap Rhun ap Maelgwn Gwynedd"
 
          In his note of the pedigrees, he tells us"
 
          "He was born c. 1025 and was ancestor of a tribe in Eifionydd and Ardudwy which was one of the Pymtheg Llwyth Gwynedd. In HL 9 his pedigree is only carried back to Lludd.  It appears that some genealogist, not knowing the version of pedigree #1, misidentified Lludd with Lludd ap Beli Mawr.  The next stage was to identify Beli with Beli ap Rhun of the royal line of Gwynedd, whence the version of pedigree #2.
 
           "The claim by a South Wales family to be descended from Pasgen ap Urien Rheged is of respectable antiquity, for it is found in JC 33-4, where we are told that the wife of Llewelyn ap Cadwgan ap Elystan Glodrydd was Ellylw, seventh in descent from Pasgen.  This family is associated with Abergwili in Ystrad Tywy, but no other descendants are recorded.  However, later pedigrees give another tribe descended from Pasgen, that of Einion ap Llywarch, in the same area.  Two tribes in North Wales, those of Gollwyn ap Tangno and Marchweithian, were also traced to Pasgen ap Urien.
 
          "All these four lines point to a date of birth about 850 for Pasgen.  Is this accidental or does it point to a historical person named Pasgen who was mis-identified with Pasgen ap Urien of the sixth century?  There also seems to have been a family in Iscennen claiming descent from Cadell ap Urien, but the male line evidently ended in about 1450 and the result is that the full pedigree has not been preserved."
 
PEDIGREE #1:
 
         We would place the birth of Collwyn ap Tangno near 1010, but agree the Pasgen in his ancestry was born c. 850.  As discussed in our earlier paper[1], we would replace "Llew ap Lyminod angel" with a single man and his nickname, i.e. Llewelyn Llyminiog Angel.  We also suggest "Lludd" is merely an abbreviated version of Lluddoca.  Finally, we would delete "Rheged" since this was clearly not the 6th century Urien Rheged.
 
PEDIGREE #2:
 
         We agree with Bartrum that this is a corrupt version penned by a medieval man who must have believed there was only a single Lludd and a single Beli found in Welsh pedigrees.  We disagree with his throw-away comment describing Beli ap Rhun as "of the royal line of Gwynedd"; that man was the grandson of Maelgwn Gwynedd ap Cadwallon Lawhir whereas the royal line of Gwynedd descended from Beli ap Einion ap Owain Ddantgwyn[2].
 
COMMENTS:
 
         Although the cantrefs of Eifionydd and Ardudwy were part of Collwyn's lordship in Gwynedd, he and his eldest son Merwydd Goch lived in Llyn where his ancestors had resided for four generations before his birth.  We have previously suggested his ancestor, Llewelyn Llyminiog Angel, obtained the lordship once ruled by Merfyn ap Rhodri Mawr by marrying a daughter of Merfyn following Merfyn's death[3].
 
        The South Wales families who descended from Pasgen represent lines of his younger sons, Gwrgan and Ynyr, who were yet children when Pasgen fled from Rhos to Ceredigion about the year 893.  When Hywel Dda assembled his kingdom of Deheubarth in the early 10th century, Pasgen was granted the Lordship of Gower.
 
         It is our belief that Urien, the father of Pasgen, was a younger son of Hywel ap Caradog of Rhos and brother of the 9th century Caradog Freich Fras.  While it is possible that Pasgen had a brother named Cadell ap Urien, the single mention of such a man in a brief Iscennen pedigree is inconclusive.  He was omitted from Bartrum's charts and indexes, and the pedigree may have been a family related to one of the Einion ap Llywarchs known to live in Iscennen in the 13th century[4]; that extended family descended from Mor ap Ynyr ap Pasgen.
 
         We chart the ancestry of Collwyn ap Tangno as:
 
                                    745  Caradog, ob 798
                                                l
                                      785  Hywel, ob 825[5]
                                                l
                                      820  Urien
                                                l
                                     850  Pasgen
                                                l
                          878  Llewelyn Llyminiog Angel
                                                l
                                    910  Lluddoca
                                                l
                                    945  Cadfael
                                                l
                                    980  Tangno
                                                l
                                   1010  Collwyn
 
NOTES:
[1] "Pasgen ap Urien 'Rheged', Lord of Gower" found under The Royal Family of Gwynedd elsewhere on this site
[2] See "Ancestry of Cynan Tindaethwy" elsewhere on this site
[3] See "Ancient Lordship pf Gower" elsewhere on this site
[4] See "Einion ap Llywarch of Carmarthenshire" elsewhere on this site
[5] The pedigree of Hywel ap Caradog back to Cunedda is cited in Harleian Ms 3859, 3