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FAMILY
OF DRYMBENOG AP MAENYRCH OF BRYCHEINIOG
By Darrell Wolcott
With a name like Drymbenog, it felt safe to believe this son of Maenyrch ap Dryffin could only be a younger brother of Bleddyn
ap Maenyrch, king of Brycheiniog until his death in 1093. Bartrum charted a single man of this name [1] but gave him
two wives, supposedly of the same generation. Yet, as we scan the first 3 generations of his descendants, we find folks
charted as "siblings" and "wives" born in different generations than their other siblings or husbands.
In our first paper in this series on Brychieniog men [2], we identified a second Maenyrch ap Dryffin, born c. 1075, as the
father of Madog. Our follow-up paper [3] then identified two brothers of this c. 1105 Madog as Bleddyn and Drymbenog,
the latter cited as the father of the c. 1145 Ithel Gam.
A younger brother of King Bleddyn ap Maenyrch, the earliest Drymbenog ap Maenyrch was born c. 1050 and resided in Cantref
Selyf in the northern part of Brycheiniog. There is no evidence that he joined with his brother in the 1093 battle where
Bleddyn, and his wife's brother Rhys ap Tewdwr, fell. We believe it is quite likely that the Norman conqueror, Sir Bernard
Newmarch, had both conquered and pacified a large part of Brycheiniog some time prior to 1093. The battle that year,
we suggest, was Bleddyn's final attempt to salvage something for himself, since many of his former supporters had already
been peeled away.
Another man who survived, probably by staying away from that final battle, was Eidio Wyllt. [4] He was, if you count in-laws,
a double nephew of Bleddyn. His mother was Nest ferch Tewdwr, a sister of Bleddyn's wife. He had married a daughter
of Drymbenog, Bleddyn's brother. He was clearly a nephew of Rhys ap Tewdwr, the brother of his mother. We suggest that
both Drymbenog and Eidio Wyllt had already given their fealty to Newmarch, and had been permitted to retain the bulk of their lands.
Drymbenog had been Lord of Cantref Selyf.
BRIEF ANCESTRY CHART:
1015 Maenyrch ap Dryffin
__________________l__________________
l
l
l
1045 King Bleddyn 1050 Drymbenog 1047 Dryffin
l
l
1080
Moriddig Warwyn 1075 Maenyrch
l
1110
Drymbenog
l
1145 Moriddig
THE WIVES OF
DRYMBENOG:
Two citations found in Dwnn's "Visitations in Wales" [5] assert that:
"Mother of Moriddig Warwyn ap Drymbenog was Gladys Ddu ferch Rhys ap Tewdrw Mawr; others
say that Nest ferch Iestyn ap Gwrgan was the mother of Moriddig".
In fact, none of the "others" called this second lady "Nest" but all did say such a lady was the mother of Moriddig.
A plurality called the lady "Gwenllian" ferch Iestyn ap Gwrgan. [6]
Gwladys Ddu ferch Rhys ap Tewdwr Mawr (a first-cousin to King Rhys ap Tewdwr) was born c. 1065 and fits well as a wife of
the c. 1050 Drymbenog and as the mother of Moriddig Warwyn, born c. 1080. A daughter, of whatever name, of the Iestyn
ap Gwrgan who was contemporary with the c. 1050 Drymbenog, would have had to been born no later than 1065 to be identified
as a wife of that Drymbenog. We reject that identification since it requires Iestyn to have sired the daughter at about
age 20.
We would identify Gwenllian ferch Iestyn as a daughter of the c. 1075 Iestyn ap Gwrgan ap Ithel Ddu, she born c. 1120 and
she married the Drymbenog ap Maenyrch born c. 1110. We also believe she bore a son named Moriddog about 1140. That Dwnn
pedigree we quoted above questioned who was really the mother of Moriddig ap Drymbenog. In fact both ladies were, since
these were two different men named Drymbenog and two different men named Moriddig.
CHILDREN OF DRYMBENOG:
The earliest Drymbenog
had, in addition to Moriddig Warwyn, a son named Cadwgan. Born c. 1085, he was the ancestor of Rhydderch Ddu ap
Dafydd. [7] Beside the daughter, Elinor, who married Madog aka Eidio Wyllt, [8] Drymbenog had a daughter named Arddun. Born
c. 1085, she married Rhys (1085) ap Hoedliw (1055) ap Cadwgan (1020) ap Elystan Glodrydd (990). [9] He did NOT have a son
named Ithel Gam.
The later Drymbenog
had sons Moriddig and Ithel Gam, but no known daughters.
SOME FAMILIES DESCENDED FROM DRYMBENOG ap MAENYRCH:
CHART COMMENTS:
(a) This Drymbenog married Gwladys Ddu, who is called the mother of Moriddig
Warwyn. [10] This is the Drymbenog ap Maenyrch who had brothers Bleddyn, Dryffin and Rhiwallon.
(b) Moriddig Warwyn had, in addition to a son, Llewelyn, 3 daughters:
(1) Arianwen (1110) married Madog (1098) ap Maredsudd (1065) ap Bleddyn, king of Powys [11]; (2) Ann (1115) married
Idris (1105) ap Genillin (1075) ap Rhys Goch (1045) ap Ifor (1010) [12]; and (3) Arddun (1115) married Cadian (1100) ap Cadfael
(1070) ap Matthew Hen (1040) ap Brochwel III ap Aeddan III of Powys. [13]
(c) Cadwgan (ancestor of Rhydderch Ddu #1) was a brother of Moriddig Warwyn.
[14] Sisters Arddun and Elen are discussed and dated in the text of this paper under Children of Drymbenog. Moriddig
Warwyn did NOT have a brother named Ithel Gam.
(d) This Llewelyn married Sion ferch Genillin. [15] The grandfather
of this "Joan" was Rhys Goch ap Maenyrch, who was Lord of Ystrad Yw
(e) Gwenllian is the daughter of Iestyn ap Gwrgan who is cited as having
been married to Drymbenog ap Maenyrch and as being the mother of a son named Moriddig, which was discussed earlier in this
paper
(f) This "Jane" married Aeddan (1150) ap Seisyll (1120) ap Dyfnwal
(1090) ap Caradog (1060) ap Ynyr Gwent (1030) [16]
(g) These 4 sons were Gwgan, Gwrgeneu, Seisyll and Cynharwy.
Bartrum's charts conflate them with 4 same-named sons of the c. 1180 Llewelyn ap Moriddig ap Drymbenog.
(h) This Cadwgan married Marged ferch Lord Rhys [17], a sister of Elinor
mentioned in note (j) below. This Cadwgan did NOT have a son named Dafydd
(j) All citations, which identify a wife for Moriddig ap Drymbenog
ap Maenyrch, call the lady Elinor, daughter of Lord Rhys, [18]
(k) No wife is cited for this Llewelyn ap Moriddig
(m) An unnamed daughter (1215) of Llewelyn ap Moriddig is cited as having
married Rhiryd (1205) ap Seisyll (1175) ap Hwefrig (1140) ap Einion (1095) ap Owain (1060) ap Cadwgan (1020) ap Elystan Glodrydd
(990) [19]
(n) Llewelyn had 4 other sons, Gwgan, Gwrgeneu, Seisyll and Cynharwy.
See note (g) above
The two cousin lines
who had, for 5 generations, produced a string of same-named sons, outdid
themselves beginning in the 6th generation. Rather than continuing with a single samed-named son each, both men named
Llewelyn ap Moriddig gave 4 sons the same 4 names, all of which continued the copy-cat naming pattern.
GWRGENEU ap LLEWELYN ap MORIDDIG:
This pair of men
each named a son Owain, but those men terminated the traditional pattern when the earlier Owain named his sons Ieuan and Rhys,
while the later Owain named an only son Madog:
1150
Gwrgeneu ap Llewelyn
_________l_________________
l
l
l
1190 Llewelyn 1185
Owain 1190 Gwrgeneu
_________l_______ Fychan
l l
1215 Rhys (a)
1220 Ieuan
1205 Gwrgeneu ap Llewelyn
l
1240
Owain
l
1270
Madog
(a) The Rhys ap Owain on Bartrum's chart "Drymbenog 9" was actually
Rhys (1375) ap Owain (1340) ap Thomas (1310) ap Dafydd (1280) ap Gruffudd (1245) ap Rhys (1215) ap Owain (1185). He
was the father of Gruffudd (1405) father of Dafydd (1435) father of Thomas (1465) father of Nest (1495) who married Morgan
(1480) ap Trahaearn (1440) ap Dafydd (1405)
SEISYLL ap LLEWELYN ap MORIDDIG
As the ancestor of
the c. 1414 Sir Roger Vaughan of Tretower whose mother was Gwladys Duu ferch Sir Dafydd Gam, the earlier Seisyll was probably
the best-known son of Llewelyn ap Moriddig. He and his later namesake both named a son Hywel, but neither of those sons
continued the family's copy-cat naming tradition.
1145
Seisyll ap Llewelyn (a)
____________l______
l
l
1180 Hywel (b)
1175 Elisabeth (c)
l
1215 Ieuan 1205
Seisyll ap Llewelyn
____________l_______
l l
1235
Hywel (d) 1235 Madog Gam
l
no known sons
(a) Married a daughter (1165) ferch Gruffudd (1135) ap Ifor
Bach (1105) ap Meurig (1075) ap Cadifor (1035) ap Cydrich (1005) ap Gwaithfoed of Ystrad Tywy (975) [20]
(b) Married Gwenllian (1195) ferch Maredudd (1165) ap Caradog
(1135) ap Iestyn (1105) ap Gwrgan (1075) ap Ithel Fychan (1045) ap Ithel Ddu (1012) ap Ithel (980) [21]
(c) Married Sir Elidyr Ddu (1160) ap Llywarch (1130) ap Cynhaethwy
(1100) ap Gwrwared (1070) ap Seisyllt (1040)ap Rhun (1010) ap Llywarch (975) ap Rhiryd (940) ap Mor (910) ap Ynyr (880) ap
Pasgen (850) ap Urien (820) [22]
(d) Married Gwladys (1235) ferch Morgan Fychan (1195) ap Morgan
Gam (1165) ap Morgan (1135) ap Caradog (1105) ap Iestyn (1075) ap Gwrgan (1042) ap Ithel Ddu (1012) [23]
CYNHARWY ap LLEWELYN ap MORIDDIG:
The men named Cynharwy
ap Llewelyn each had sons named Owain, each of whom named sons Gwilym and Owain Fychan, and each of those men extended
the same-name sequence yet another generation:
1150 Cynharwy ap
Llewelyn (a)
l
1180 Owain (b)
_____________l_____
l
l
1210 Cynharwy ap Llewelyn
1215 Gwilym 1210 Owain
Fychan
l
l
l
1240 Owain (e)
1245 Ieuan (c) 1245
Dafydd (d) ________l_________
l
l
l
1275 daughter (f)
1275 Gwilym
1270 Owain Fychan
l
l
1305 Ieuan 1300 Dafydd (g)
l
1340 Gruffudd
l
1370 Thomas
l
1400 Marged (h)
(a) He married Jane (1160) daughter of Miles Pitcher II (1130) ap
Sir Miles Pitcher (1095) ap Sir Pitcher/Picard (1065), [24] the latter being a knight serving under Sir Bernard Newmarch in
1093
(b) He married Sybil (1185) daughter of William Gunter III (1150)
ap William Gunter II (1120) ap Sir William Gunter (1093) ap Sir Peter Gunter (1060), [25] the latter being another knight
serving with Sir Bernard Newmarch
(c) He married Lleuci Fychan (1255) ferch Madog (1225) ap Gwrgeneu
Fychan (1190) ap Gwrgeneu (1150) ap Llewelyn (1115), [26] the lady being his 3rd cousin
(d) He married Joan (1260) ferch Madog (1230) ap Hywel Felyn (1200)
ap Hywel (1170) ap Gruffudd (1135) ap Ifor Bach (1105) [27]
(e) He married a daughter (1240) ferch Llewelyn (1205) ap Dafydd
(1170) ap Rhys Fychan (1130), [28] the latter being a younger brother of Lord Rhys
(f) She married Hywel Fwya (1265) ap Trahaearn (1230) ap Ieuan (1200)
ap Meurig (1170) ap Cynider (1140) ap Ithel (1110) ap Caradog (1080) ap Bleddyn (1045) ap Maenyrch (1015) [29]
(g) He had a daughter, Goleuddydd (1335) who married Rhys Llwyd (1320)
ap Adda (1290) ap Rhys (1255) ap Einion Sais (1225) [30]
(h) She married Thomas (1385) ap Rhys (1350) ap Dafydd (1320) ap
Thomas (1290) ap Dafydd (1255) ap Rhys (1225) ap Hywel Fychan (1195) ap Hywel (1165) ap Trahaearn (1135) ap Gwgan (1105) ap
Gwgan Blaidd Gwyrdd (1075) ap Bleddyn (1045) ap Maenyrch (1115)
[31]
GWGAN ap LLEWELYN ap MORIDDIG:
The two men named Gwgan ap Llewelyn not only extended the same-named-sons tradition for another 5 generations, but created
some new same-named cousin lines of their own. In order to discuss several different problems with Bartrum's charts
of this family, we will require a whole new paper. [32]
NOTES:
[1] Peter C Bartrum "Welsh Genealogies AD300-1400",
vol 2. chart "Drymbenog 1"
[2] See our paper "Welshmen Named Maemnyrch" at the
link below:
[3] See our paper "Bleddyn ap Maenyrch. King of Brycheiniog"
at the link below:
[4] See our paper "Eidio Wyllt - What Was His Birthname?"
at the link below:
[5] Dwnn ii, 24 and 49
[6] Harl 2414, 21; Harl 5835, 46: and LB 111; two others
call the lady "Arddun"
[7] See our paper "Rhydderch Ddu of Tal-y-Lynn" at
the lionk below:"
[8] Dwnn i, 224; LB 89
[9] Harl 1973, 12
[10] Dwnn ii, 24 & 49
[11] Harl 2289, 172
[12] Bradney, "History of Monmouthshire". Vol 1(2b), 338
[13] Dwnn i, 302
[14] Dwnn i, 151 & 205
[15] Harl 2414, 21; Harl 2300(2), 115 & 139
[16] LB 10 as "Arthan"; LB 67 as "Arthen"
[17] Harl 1975, 46
[18] Haarl 2414, 21 and Harl 2300(2), 116 call the lady "Elinor".
Harl 3525, 82 cites her as an unnamed daughter of Lord Rhys
[19] Glam 129 = Golden Grove Ms page 567
[20] Harl 2414, 41
[21] LB 111
[22] Dwnn i, 131 & 210
[23] Harl 2414, 21
[24] Protheroe IV, 233
[25] Harl 2291(2), 104
[26] Harl 5835. 80
[27] Harl 2300(2), 115
[28] Harl 3525, 80
[29] Pen 128, 789a
[30] Dwnn ii, 26 & 27; LB 264
[31] Harl 2289. 192
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