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A
GLAMORGAN FAMILY IN GWYNEDD?
By Darrell Wolcott
Now that the "Geni" folks have made Peter Bartrum's charts available online, most
family researchers can access them for guidance in their own work. We were among the few who owned the printed version and have been using them for years. We recommend using
them ONLY for guidance since they are replete with wrong info, both as to father/child connections, spouse assignments, and
estimated dating.
One project, on which we were working, led us to the Bartrum Charts "Iestyn 24, 25 and 26".
We have here a family said to descend from Lleision ap Morgan ap Caradog ap Iestyn, this Morgan having been Lord Afan, as
well as Lord of Nedd (sometimes spelled "Neath") in what was, in his lifetime, a commote in Glywysing, but later to be a hundred
in Glamorganshire. The family proceeds 5 generations (about 160 years) with no spouses cited for any of the men.
Then the line blossoms into one with multiple siblings in each generation, ALL of whom, if their spouse is shown, are charted
as having married Gwynedd spouses. Our immediate question was "did someone move the full length of Wales, or is the
later family wrongly connected to a Glamorgan ancestry?"
THE
GLAMORGAN ORIGINS:
As cited in the early sources, the family descended from the c. 1075 Iestyn ap Gwrgan ap Ithel Ddu as follows:
[1]
1075 Iestyn
l
1105 Caradog
l
1135 Morgan, Lord of Nedd
l
1165 Lleision
l
1195 Iorwerth
l
1235 Gwrgeneu
l
1265 Gwrgeneu Fychan
l
1295 Dafydd
AN OUTLIER
FAMILY:
Our first step concerns what appears to be an outlier line charted to descend from Gwrgeneu ap
Iorwerth ap Lleision. No identifiable spouses are shown until we reach Bartrum's Generation 11 (c. 1370) and these are
both Anglesey ladies. Our tests show these 14th century folks are correctly dated by Bartrum, but when you extend their
ancestry back a few generations, we find Bartrum has played games with his dating system. In order to attach this line
to Gwrgeneu ap Iorwerth, he has dated a father and son both to the same generation. When this is corrected, we find
the patriarch of this line, a man called Ieuan Gwisgioedd ("was ripe"), should be dated to Generation 7 or c. 1240.
Thus, he does NOT fit chronologically with this Gwrgeneu ap Iorwerth, since the latter man was born c. 1235.
When we consult Bartrum's Index for Ieuan Gwisgioedd, we find a single source cited for this family
line: Peniarth Ms 136, 205. But this citation ends with "Gwrgeneu", the "ap Iorwerth" being wholly provided by Bartrum.
We next found a "Gwrgeneu ap Iddon ap Cadrod" born c. 1205 and a man of the Anglesey family descended from Maelog Dda, thus
a cousin line of Hwfa ap Cynddelw. There are no citations to support the attachment of Ieuan Gwisglioedd to Gwrgeneu
ap Iddon, but it is a far better guess than Bartrum made. It is consistent with both the chronology and the geography, while
Bartrum's guess fails both tests. Accordingly, we would remove this family line from the Iestyn charts.
IEUAN
ap DAFYDD:
Our next step was to test the dating of all marriage matches charted on Iestyn 24 and 25
to confirm Bartrum's dating and to look for a possible same-named family line which Bartrum might have conflated on his charts.
The 3 daughters charted for Ieuan ap Dafydd appear to be correctly dated. We found no evidence that two separate families
were conflated, nor that the ancestor of these folks was anyone other than Gwrgeneu ap Iorwerth ap Lleision of Neath.
GRUFFUDD
ap DAFYDD:
Bartrum dates Gruffudd ap Dafydd ap Gwrgeneu to c. 1330 and married to a lady, Ann ferch Dafydd
ap Gruffudd, whom he dates to c. 1370. In fact, she was Ann (1340) ferch Dafydd (1310) ap Gruffudd (1280) ap Dafydd
(1245) ap Tudor (1215) ap Madog (1185) ap Iarddur (1150) ap Trahaearn (1120). [2] Bartrum conflates her family on his
charts with the c. 1185 Iarddur ap Cynddelw.
Two of Gruffudd's sons, Ieuan and Gwilym, are correctly dated to c. 1360. A 3rd son, Dafydd ap
Gruffudd, is not only dated wrong, but much of his family is incorrectly displayed on chart Iestyn 25.
THE
"DAFYDD, DEAN OF BANGOR" CHARTING PROBLEM:
There was a Dean of Bangor named Dafydd ap Ieuan ap Dafydd and cited as "Dafydd Bangor"[3], but
he must have been born near 1360. He was the Dean in 1399 [4] and was yet alive in 1431[5]. But the "Dafydd Bangor"
on Bartrum's chart was born c. 1420. [6] Our work established there were two families which Bartrum has conflated:
1295 Dafydd ap Gwrgeneu Fychan
_______________l________________
l
l
1330 Ieuan
Gruffudd 1325
l
l
1360
Dafydd Bangor (Dean) (a) Dafydd (b) 1355
l
l
1400
William (c)
Ieuan 1385
l
Dafydd Bangor (d) 1420
l
William
(e) 1450
CHART
NOTES:
(a) The actual Dean of Bangor in 1399, who joined the Glyn Dwr rebellion and was outlawed in 1406. He is
the man who married Angharad
(1375) ferch Dafydd Gethin (1345) ap Llewelyn (1315) ap Madog (1285) ap Philip (1250) ap Cadwgan (1215) ap Iorwerth (1185)
ap Cadwgan (1150) ap Llowarch (1120) ap Bran of Anglesey. [7]
(b) Incorrectly dated to c. 1330 by Bartrum, this Dafydd's wife is unknown. Bartrum assigned him as husband
of Morfudd ferch Iorwerth ap Gruffudd descended from Mathusalem ap Hwfa, but his own index entries for her and her husband,
Dafydd ap Gruffudd ap Dafydd, show that her husband was descended from Tudor ap Madog ap Iarddur. [8] Actually, this
Morfudd was born c. 1320 and was the mother of the Ann (1340) ferch Dafydd ap Gruffudd that married the 1325 Gruffudd ap Dafydd
ap Gwrgeneu Fychan on the Iestyn 24 chart.
(c) This William married Isabel (1415) ferch Ithel Fychan (1390) ap Llewelyn (1360) ap Gruffudd (1330) ap Llewelyn
(1300) ap Dafydd (1265) ap Llewelyn (1230) ap Tudor (1195) ap Iorwerth (1165) ap Cynwrig (1135) ap Genillin (1100) ap Meirion
Goch (1070) of Lleyn. [9]
(d) This Dafydd of Bangor has been confused with the earlier man and his wife is unknown, The wife Bartrum
assigned him belongs to Dean Dafydd of Bangor of c. 1360
(e) This William was yet alive in 1499 [10] and his wife is unknown. He did have 3 sons known to be alive
in 1530. [11] None of those dates are compatible with the William ap Dafydd who was the Dean's son.
ONE ADDITIONAL CONFLATION:
The c. 1355 Dafydd
ap Gruffudd ap Dafydd ap Gwrgeneu Fychan is cited in Harleian 1977, 175 as having a son, Dafydd Filwr (1385), who had a son,
Iolyn (1420), who had a son named Robert (1450). But Harleian 1977, 72 says Robert ap Iolyn ap Dafydd Filwr married Sioned
(1420) ferch Deicws (1385) ap Gwilym (1350) ap Tudor Goch (1315) ap Gronwy (1280) ap Einion Goch (1245) ap Einion (1215) descended
from Cilmin Droed Ddu. Such a lady must have married a Robert (1420) ap Iolyn (1390) ap Dafydd (1355), not the Robert
born c. 1450.
The conclusion we drew
from this analysis is that Dafydd ap Gwrgeneu Fychan was probably the man who relocated from Glamorgan to Gwynedd by marrying
an heiress who inherited her father's lands in Gwynedd. It is also possible that his initial relocation was job-related:
he may have been employed by the Roman Catholic church where his grandson later became a Dean.
NOTES:
[1] This line down to the c.
1295 Dafydd is cited correctly in Pen. 128, 681b. It is also cited in Pen. 135, 376 and Pen. 177, 159 each of which
omits one generation, but not the same one.
[2] Bartrum omitted Ann from his index,
but she was an only child and her father is cited in Harleian 1977, 175
[3] Other modern writers call this Dean
of Bangor "Dafydd Daron"
[4] Entry in Dictionary of Welsh Biography,
page 100, written by Prof.John Lloyd
[5] "Y Bangoriad", vol 2, no. 9 (1969),
page 10
[6] Bartrum dated him to Generation
12 (1400) but also dated two of his recent ancestors to Generation 10.
[7] The belief that he took part in
the Glyn Dwr rebellion is contained in his DWB entry, note 4 above. His marriage to Angharad is cited in Dwnn ii, 252 &
291 and Pen. 128, 682a
[8] In his Index, Bartrum lists Harleian
1977, 175 as the sole source for Morfudd and says she married a Dafydd ap Gruffudd ap Dafydd. There are multiple men
of that name in his Index, but only one who is also cited in Harleian 1977, 175: the Dafydd ap Gruffudd ap Dafydd ap Tudor
charted on Iarddur 3. Ignoring this, Bartrum charted her as married to a different Dafydd ap Gruffuddd ap Dafydd, the
one on chart Iestyn 25. When her charting is corrected, it can be seen that she was the mother of the Ann ferch Dafydd
ap Gruffudd who married Gruffudd ap Dafydd ap Gwrgeneu Fychan
[9] Pen. 135, 174
[10] [11] The dates when these men were
known to have been living is reported in the historical journal cited in Note 5, above. pp 9/11
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